Here’s a video of Mirza Tahir Ahmed commenting on Isa A.S resurrection and coming back. According to him it would take “2 hundered curore years or even more” for a soul or human to come back from heavens.
Before further discussion, lets clarify 2 points:
1. Second coming of Isa A.S is not an article of faith. So this article is not to prove or to disprove his coming.
2. Even if Ahmadis prove his death, no one can prove Mirza Ghulam Ahmed ibne Chiragh Bibi was ibne Maryam. There is only 1 ibn-e-Maryam and other is definitely ibne Chiragh bibi.
Discussion:
What is a Miracle:
A miracle is a phenomenon not fully explained by known laws of nature, or an act by some supernatural entity or unknown, outside force. A miracle is sometimes thought of as a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature. Others suggest that God may work with the laws of nature to perform what people see as miracles.
So, in all Qur’anic and Biblical, Judaic studies a miracle is something that intervenes with the laws of nature to perform something supernatural.
At 6:00, he talks about Isa on heaven and goes on to saying “so he(Isa) is not a Muslim, that non-Muslim prophet, what is he going to do when he comes back?” In his rage, he did not realize that all the prophets were Muslims and no new religion was given to any nation.
5:111 And [remember] when I inspired to the disciples, “Believe in Me and in My messenger Jesus.” They said, “We have believed, so bear witness that indeed we are Muslims”
In 5:111, Allah tells us that all the apostles of Isa A.S said that “we bear witness, that we are all muslims”.
Anyways, Mirza Tahir Ahmed said ” Are they (prophets) free from the Law of God? Does God interferes or goes against the laws He made, for himself.”
Mirza Ghulam Ahmed says about this in his books, indeed Mirza Tahir never read his prophet.
“when there’s an objection on deen, then over there God also changes his “Law” and shows miracles”
58 Responses to “Laws of Nature: MTA denying MGA”
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It is very clear that from the word non-muslim he means that the person not acting according to Quran and the teachings of Hazrat Mohammad SAW.
Teachings of Hazrat Isa a.s. are very much different to those of Islam
and for the second part you are deceiving as
you deliberately have not provided the name of the book.
Because the reference you are giving is not from the book written by Hazrat Mirza Sahib.
Not true.
According to Holy Quran the teachings of all Prophets including Hazrat Isa a.s ere the same as the teachings of Islam. You are the one who is deceiving us.
i think you are not aware of the teachings of Holy Quran. because Holy Quran tells us that Hazrat Mohammad S.A.W is the only prophet who comes for the Whole world and Hazrat Isa a.s. was the prophet only for Bani Israeel. and the teachings of Hazrat Isa was only for that time and is subject to only Bani Israeel but teachings of Islam are for the whole mankind and it has solutions for every problem of the whole mankind.
your getting it all twisted from the time of ADAM a.s to MUHAMMED s.a.w all prophets/messengers taught TAWHEED a MUSLIM is 1 who submits his will to ALLAH s.w.t ..so all were muslims ..some things were allowed to previous nations and some not..yet the core was always the same to worship and ALLAH and not to associate any partners with him Islam did not start with our prophet it started from ADAM a.s different nations were called by different names …christians are reffered to as christians becous they followed christ
@ NasrulMGA
Be careful of what you say you may have to bite your own words. According to your Ahmadiyya faith Mirza Ghulam is another prophet after Muhammad s.a.w.s and Islam is not complete yet as more prophets will come.
MGA claimed he had Ilham (divine inspiration) – - Muhammadi Begum would be his wife, which never happened and he died lusting for her. Did GOD change plan or MGA Ilham was from another source. Food for thought for Ahmadis.
Don’t you see MGA was a false prophet ???
Do you like to respond on my comment please?
MGA claimed he had Ilham (divine inspiration) – – Muhammadi Begum would be his wife, which never happened and he died lusting for her. Did GOD change plan or MGA Ilham was from another source. Food for thought for Ahmadis.
I have no doubt about the claim of Hazrat Mirza Sahib. as far as the question of not happening is concern how does it mean that the claim of ilham was false?
If it did not happen it means, it was false claim. It was not from GOD. Even a grade 5 student can understand this. This was not the only false claim that MGA made, there were several of them turned out to be false. Is Isa a.s in Kashmir????????????????????????????????????
(It was not from GOD. Even a grade 5 student can understand this)
i dont think that you are right because even a 5 grade student has common sense which is really not very common. i want to give you an example about your argument.
If a grade 5 student claimed that his teacher had told him that he is not going to pass the exam but the result was against that claim. then according to you the student is a liar and the claim was false.
this conclusion of yours may be right with equal chances of being wrong.
how could you jump to this decision without investigating the matter?
hope you understand my point.
and second thing you asked about Hazrat Isa a.s. I think we should have to discuss many things i am new to this site and want to have good discussion do you tell me about some site where we could chat or discuss these matters?
my brother Nasrullah, I invite you to come to our discussion forum. Don’t jump in all the topics. if you want to you can but it will hard for you.
You will have to sign-up though, which is not so hard.
http://ahmediorg.yuku.com/forums/1/General-Discussion
I dont debate much now because my job is to present the truth, if you want it take it and if you don’t like what I write, leave it. The choice is yours. All the people you are talking here including me have been through what you are right now. my advice to you is Come as a learner not a Defender. because the way you talk is of a Defender of Ahmadiyyah not like a learner or student of religion. Read biographies of 4 Imams Imam Shafi’ changed his stance 100 times on 1 thing. One of them said my “raaye” or suggestion would change by nightfall on some subjects. This is what we should all behave like. Thanks and see you in there.
When Ahmadis loose an argument, they try to confuse people…….. true means false and false means true. May GOD give hidaya to Nasrullah as he cannot see the truth.
I want to say – you people have nothing else to do – just finger pointing – everyone knows that when you point finger to some body – three fingers are pointing towards you. Have you not heard Hadith of Phophet Muhammad (s.a.w) – about back biting. When you do “Gheebat” – it is like eating flesh of your own brother.
Are you a good muslim – Do you say you 5 daily nimaz. Do you make sure your neigbour is well, do you give charity – do you follow all the teachings of Allah and the Prophet, do you pay zakaat – if your answer yes then you should immediately stop talking about others behind their back.
Allah says
Al-Haqqah 45-7 “‘And, had he forged (and attributed) any sayings to Us, We would surely have seized him by the right hand, and then surely We would have severed his life-artery. ”
The verse is very clear. If a messenger lies deliberately about God, claiming to have had messages from Him, God seizes him by the right hand and cuts asunder his life artery. God’s help and support are cut short for him. Instead, he is disgraced. We also read in the Holy Quran:
Al-An’am 22
“Who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah or gives the lie to His Signs? Surely, the unjust shall not prosper ”
Please STOP and spend you energy and time on something that is useful for mankind. Help the poor – go to poor country and serve people needy over there – that is the true spirit of Islam. They need food, water go and do something for them. There are floods, earth quakes go help them. Not sitting in a chair and by making false stories about anyone.
WHY ? don’t you have anything better or else to do.
Thank you
Al-Haqqah 45-7 “‘And, had he forged (and attributed) any sayings to Us, We would surely have seized him by the right hand, and then surely We would have severed his life-artery. ”
this is the real problem of Ahmadiyyah, interpretations!!!
You know by saying this you have made Bahaullah, Rashid Khalifa, Agha Khan, Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi all true claimants. Bahais are more organised and were there before you guys. Submitters still surviving, Agha Khani in very large in Pakistan.
@as
When a virus attacks your body do you go and do good service to humanity and be a nice person, no you take care by treatment to counter the virus attack.
Ahmadiyyat is a fraud that is falsely using the name of our religion to undermine it take Muslims away from it by replacing with a false ideology and a false prophet, and we are trying to defend our religion against this evil fitna. By the way even if we can guide one Ahmadi to Islam it is worth it. So why are you objecting to this noble cause?
Mirza Tahir Ahmad danced around like he was some scientist….that is insane…this guy barely made it through high school…
Ahmadis will regret all of his quack theories soon enough.
so irrational you are.
what a stupid argument do you think that knowledge can only be gain through schooling?
Nasullah, try explaining your so called rational argument to the Universities in Medicine where Doctors graduate. If he cannot make it in schooling means he is not a good student, simple as that.
@ nasrullah
You should study the life of Mira Tahir Ahmad from 1954 to 1964. His daddy committed fraud and got him admitted to a college in England..MTA dropped out very quickly..he was raised with a silver spoon in his mouth…the only thing he had to memorize were Ahmadiyya Polemics….
@ Yousaf Ahmed
Thanks for your invitation i will surely join the forum.
and for your comments that i am defending Ahmadiyyat i say that Ahmadiyyat is true Islam in opinion so I am defending my belief. but my comments are not meant to hurt any feelings.
and for your statement that you are presenting the truth, i pointed out the faults in different articles and comments but none of you had tried to prove that those objections of mine are wrong. for example i objected on your article “Jinns are bacteria” but you did not bother to clarify. this attitude makes me feel that you are trying to confuse people. your claim is that you are trying to help people is this what you call helping?
@ nasrullah
I have answered most of your questions…if not, post them again and I will give them a shot.
@nasrullah,
You are following the one who invented lies against Allah s.w.t and you are unable to provide any answers for it.
example:
1) What proof you have for the vulgar language and false accusations of Mirza sahib against the mighty messenger of Allah s.w.t Hazrat Isa a.s. You have danced around this subject but no have no guts to admit the truth that Mirza sahib had a vulgar mind and evil thoughts.
2) What proof do you have that Hazrat Isa a.s is buried in Kashmir, except saying that Mirza Sahib tried to collect some historical facts. You also mentioned that this belief is not an important part of your faith so you already are starting to doubt the authenticity of your faith. This in my opinion is a good start thereby you will one day find out that your cult is no more than a pious fraud.
3) You have not given any logical explanation of why the self proclaimed Ilham of Mirza sahib to marry Muhammadi Begum did not happen and he died in the end. We have an answer for you and hopefully you will understand that this was not an Ilham, it was Mirza sahibs evil mind at work lusting after that poor girl, who was extremely lucky in not getting married to this insane person.
As time permits we will inshallah give you more and more proof of the fraud of Ahmadiyyat. I have seen it all and I mean it that Ahmadiyyat is a fraud. But do you care about it?
@ Peace
your comments are not related to the topic of this page and also not to my comments on this page
but i try to give you answers you need
1) What proof you have for the vulgar language and false accusations of Mirza sahib against the mighty messenger of Allah s.w.t Hazrat Isa a.s. You have danced around this subject but no have no guts to admit the truth that Mirza sahib had a vulgar mind and evil thoughts.
you are accusing Mirza sahib so it is your duty to provide proof. come with proof of your accusations then i will surely answer you on that.
2) What proof do you have that Hazrat Isa a.s is buried in Kashmir, except saying that Mirza Sahib tried to collect some historical facts. You also mentioned that this belief is not an important part of your faith so you already are starting to doubt the authenticity of your faith. This in my opinion is a good start thereby you will one day find out that your cult is no more than a pious fraud.
I have clearly stated that it is not important. my this statement has nothing to do with doubting the authenticity of faith. just prove me that it is an important part or even unimportant part of Ahmadiyya faith.
3) You have not given any logical explanation of why the self proclaimed Ilham of Mirza sahib to marry Muhammadi Begum did not happen and he died in the end. We have an answer for you and hopefully you will understand that this was not an Ilham, it was Mirza sahibs evil mind at work lusting after that poor girl, who was extremely lucky in not getting married to this insane person.
no one has asked me about any explanation that is why i have not given any. everyone like you jumped to the conclusion that it was not an Ilham. and when i asked that how this conclusion can be made i have not got any LOGICAL Explanation from your end.
I have explained logically that your conclusion is not logical.
I will give you logical explanation if you kindly post original text of that ilham.
i want you to do that because may be you dont agree with me if i provide that text.
@NasrulMGA,
You have no answer to my questions.
1) You are conveniently denying all Mirza sahibs vulgar accusations against Hazrat Isa a.s. even though a lot of people on this forum can see that it is a FACT that he did write abuses against the entire family of Hazrat Isa. a.s. First you said Mirza Sahib based it on Christian bible. When we asked you for proof of bible you went back and said first prove Mirza sahib insulted, then I will give you proof, so basically you are denying now. You are not consistent and are flip flopping so how can one have a honest discussion with you, when you are being so elusive?
2) We know there were people very much involved in the Hazrat Isa a.s, in Kashmir theory in Ahmadiyya as if this is a very big part of truth discovered only by Jamat Ahmadiyya and tried to argue with Muslims and ridicule their faith. But now this theory by the grace of Allah s.w.t has fallen apart like many other lies of jamaat Ahmadiyya. What proof can you give when your jamaat itself does not have any proof, we know that. So I honestly consider that this example should be a good eye opener for you to start learning Islam and ask Allah s.w.t for his guidance for it comes from him only not from me or anyone else. We can only give you the facts and/or our opinions. I know for sure Jamaat Ahmadiyya is one of the biggest fraud.
3) As far as Muhammadi begum is concerned abundance of evidence has been provided on this forum and else where to prove that Mirza Sahibs Ilham was false and he everything in his capacity to marry that girl. He even went to the extent of saying that whoever marries Muhammadi begum will dies in a short period of time, even this proved to be false and Mirza died before her husband died. So what more proof do you want.
See NasrulMGA, you should not keep denying or deflecting the evidence we have given you, but understand it and notice that Mirza sahib was never a prophet/messiah/mahdi and jamaat Ahmadiyya is not the real Islam. If you really care about the truth, if you really worry about your aakhirah and if you really want to follow Islam then you are in the wrong place because jamaat Ahmadiyya has nothing to do with any of these aspects of life.
@Nasrullah,
Here are some facts for you:
Ahmadiyyat was founded by your prophet about 100 or some years age.
According to the Holy Quran Islam has been there for centuries.
Do you believe that Islam before MGA was false?
My suggestion is that you wake up and get away from “cloud cookoo land”
@ skeptical786
The FACT my friend is that Ahmadiyyat is not a parallel religion to Islam
Ahmadiyyat is the Same Islam is teached by Our Holy Prophet Mohammad PBUH
@nas
no sir, Only Islam is the Real Islam prophet Muhammad SAW taught. Ahmadiyyat is Ahmadiyyat
@Nasrullah
“Ahmadiyat is not a parallel religion. It is the same religion as taught by the Holy Prophet.” ?
Allah called his religion “Islam” . Did the Holy Prophet call it by any other name.?
Who founded Ahmadiyyat ? The Holy Prophet? If you have even a speck of moral courage,
or honesty in you you will answer these questions truthfully.
my friend in my comments i said that it is the same ISLAM. Ahmadiyyat is not the name of the religion the name of our religion is Islam, Ahmadiyyat is the name of the jamat. i think you know the difference between religion and organizations.
@nasrulMGA,
Ahmadiyyat has nothing to do with Islam and it is a cult founded self proclaimed prophet/messiah/mahdi…..Mirza Ghulam sahib of Qadiyan (servant of the british colonial forces)
Ahmadi jamaat falsely claims Mirza sahib was promised messiah as foretold by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
This is a big lie. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had highest regards for Hazrat Isa a.s. and never spoke a bad word about him. Mirza sahib used vulgar, abusive language and hurled baseless accusations against entire family of Hazrat Isa a.s.
It is impossible that Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h predicted coming of a prophet/messiah/mahdi in the form of Mirza Sahib who did not follow his sunnat and insulted prophet Isa a.s and his entire family.
Also in Islam, messiah is Hazrat Isa a.s. and mahdi will be a different person. Whereas Mirza sahib falsely claimed to be all in one that is prophet, messiah and mahdi also in addition to claiming to be incarnation of hindu God Krishna. Is this logical? can any intelligent person follow this kind of teachings and still consider them to be teachings of Islam??????
Do you really care about learning the truth?
Yes i really care about learning the truth.
now will you please help me learning the truth by providing the proof of your accusations that Hazrat Mirza Sahib “used vulgar, abusive language and hurled baseless accusations against entire family of Hazrat Isa a.s.”
http://www.ahmedi.org/general/guns-aimed-at-isa-as
NasrulMGA,
Why do you keep asking for proof for things which you already know. I do not understand this ulterior motive of the Ahmadis. What is your hidden agenda that you always ask for proof inspite of knowing it is there?
@ Yousaf Ahmed
the statements on the link are not Hazrat Mirza sahib’s own beliefs. you also in your comment said that according to mirza sahib these are not his words. then how could you accuse him for that?
you are not getting my point i think. i want proof of your accusations. i never denied that these statements are not present in Hazrat Mirza Sahib’s books but they do not prove him guilty of accusing Hazrat Isa A.S as he clearly stated that these are not his words he just copied jewish words.
NasrulMGA,
Go on, keep defending lies and vulgar language of Mirza Sahib………for us it is clear, Mirza insulted Hazrat Isa a.s. whether he copied from Jews or anyone else, that is why he wrote in his books.
This is one more example to confirm that Mirza was not the promised messiah as foretold by Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. guaranteed. Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s was a man of far superior character and conduct and he would never have predicted a disgraceful person like Mirza who used to drink alcohol and commit Zina to be the promised messiah.
Like we said a million times, promised messiah is Hazrat Isa a.s. Mirza can be a messiah of Dajjal but not promised messiah.
@ let it go
for us it is clear, Mirza insulted Hazrat Isa a.s. whether he copied from Jews or anyone else, that is why he wrote in his books.
after failing to provide the proof what else you could say.
you can think what you want to but have no right to impose your ideas, far away from truth, on others.
Mirza who used to drink alcohol and commit Zina to be the promised messiah.
again an allegation without any proof. May Allah guide you to the right path.
We have give you all kinds of proof is there you don’t want to admit it. So what can I say except that you are avoiding the truth.
You don’t know Mirza used to drink wine tonic and commit adultery?
@ let it go
i think you dont know the meanings of the word PROOF. if you copy the words of christians about our holy prophet Hazrat Mohammad PBUH then will it be a proof that you disgrace Him PBUH??????
even if you also declare that these are not your beliefs and you by heart respect Holy prophet PBUH.
on the other hand i have provided you all kinds of proof but it is you who dont want to admit it.
now your trying to start a new topic because you failed to prove your accusation but what a bad way it is. Is this what you call Islam?
dont you fear Allah?
for me its not about winning the argument its about reaching to the truth
but it appeared that for you the important thing is to win by hook or crook?
your words can not harm Hazrat Mirza Sahib because if someone tries to spit on moon because of hatred he just gets his own sliva back on his face
NasrulMGA I did not start a second topic it is to further my claim that Mirza Ghulam was an imposter. Who am I to say this, it is not me who invented all this it is Mirza Ghulam himself who has ridiculed his position and proved that he was a liar and an imposter.
As far as fear of Allah s.w.t is concerned I can prove to you that Mirza Ghulam did not have that also and you are doing the same by trying to use the name of holy Prophet the most noble of Allah swt messengers in the argument about the cheap shit Mirza Ghulam of Qadiyan. Shame on you for doing this.
Nasrullah,
Before you said Mirza sahib took these from bible, please present us those references. Then you said these are christian “beliefs”, please present us references for that as well.
This will be my last reply if you don’t present references.
—————-
Mirza sahib used “Jewish accusation” (jews who don’t believe in Jesus and swear at jesus A.S) to knock down “christian missionaries” (for whom Jesus is son of God or God)? What kind of rocket science is this? Does this even make sense?
1. your Nabi is in direct contradiction with Qur’an by doing this. Qur’an 6:108
2. if these are not what Mirza sahib believed, and if this is not what christians believe, why the hell is it in there on the first place?
3. http://ahmedi.org/ahmadiyya-jamat/yasu-ibn-maryam-isa
@ yousaf ahmed
Mirza sahib used “Jewish accusation” (jews who don’t believe in Jesus and swear at jesus A.S) to knock down “christian missionaries” (for whom Jesus is son of God or God)? What kind of rocket science is this? Does this even make sense?
jews dont believe in jesus but christians believe in jewish books
1. your Nabi is in direct contradiction with Qur’an by doing this. Qur’an 6:108
how could this be a contradiction? hazrat Mirza sahib said the same words as christians believe about jesus. you are very much aware of the fact that these statements were addressed to a christian who never denied them as if these are not christian beliefs then he must not be silent on that. dont you know that christians do believe that jesus used to drink wine?
2. if these are not what Mirza sahib believed, and if this is not what christians believe, why the hell is it in there on the first place?
Christians do believe in it go and ask any christian or else just google all these statements
you have failed to provide any evidence of your allegations because all your accusations are false hazrat Mirza Sahib never used any bad word for any prophet. copying anyone’s statement does not mean that the person who copied them is actually saying that or agree with those statements.
Before you said Mirza sahib took these from bible, please present us those references. Then you said these are christian “beliefs”, please present us references for that as
the references you asked are of no use and you also know that but still u keeps on asking so here i am giving some
well.Genealogy of Jesus according to Matthew 1:1–17
Abraham
Isaac
Jacob
Judah & TAMAR
Perez
Hezron
Ram
Amminadab
Nahshon
Salmon & RAHAB
Boaz & RUTH
Obed
Jesse
David & Wife of Uriah
Solomon
Rehoboam
Abijam
Asa
Jehosaphat
Jehoram
Uzziah
Jotham
Ahaz
Hezekiah
Manasseh
Amon
Josiah
Jeconiah
Shealtiel
Zerubbabel
Abiud
Eliakim
Azor
Zadok
Achim
Eliud
Eleazar
Matthan
Jacob
Joseph & Mary *
Jesus
Four women are included early in the genealogy. Tamar, Rahab, Ruth, and “the wife of Uriah” (i.e., Bathsheba) and a fifth, Mary, concludes the genealogy as the mother of Jesus.
Tamar, who was involved in a scandal with Judah (Gen. 38); Rahab, the Canaanite harlot(prostitute) of Jericho (Josh. 2); Ruth, who was not an Israelite, but a Moabite (Ruth 1:4); and Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah, a woman involved in a sin of horrendous proportions (2 Sam. 11:1)
hey, don’t run away. LOL, we are almost done here. Ok, I agree he drank wine and in jewish history his grandmothers were prostitutes. Agreed on these 2 points. So you are saying christians do believe in whatever Mirza Sahib said right, now its time to prove it my friend :d
Allegation from Mirza Sahibs writing:
1. “because people knew that this person(Isa AS) is a drunker and this unethical character is not after divinity but has been like this since beginning therefore the claim of divinity is a bad result of being a drunker”
>>OK, I agree, he drank wine, was he unethical? Provide proof. His claim of being God was due to drinking wine. Provide proof which Christian sect believes this and which jewish book(which christians believe in) has this.
——————————-
Allegation No.2
“what was the lifestyle of Messiah. (please translate khaao piyo for me) He was a khao piyo, drunker, no goodness, never worshipped, never stood for truth, proud, selfish, claimant of divinity.”
>> Provide proof that he never worshipped and was Proud from Christian beliefs. Also, prove that Christians believe he’s proud. or use jewish scripture which christians believe in.
———————
Allegation No.3
“to be an EUNUCH is not good quality….this objection is pretty big that Hazrat Masih AS did not possess the biggest male quality possessed by males…”
>>Please Please, prove it to us that Jesus was an eunuch from Christian and Jewish scripture(which Christians believe in). Look at the way Mirza Sahib said it, not disgrace right, he’s actually honouring him A.S
@Yousaf Ahmad,
We have given all the evidence but looks like NasrulMGAs eyes and ears are shut to the reality. That is why he is still arguing. Even a lay person can understand here that MGA did insult Hazrat Isa a.s and he himself use to commit Zina and drink alcohol.
@ NasrulMGA
“….you have failed to provide any evidence of your allegations because all your accusations are false hazrat Mirza Sahib never used any bad word for any prophet. copying anyone’s statement does not mean that the person who copied them is actually saying that or agree with those statements.”
Mirza Ghulam resorted to making blasphemous statements about Hazrat Isa a.s. I have quoted some below and the language does not sound at all as if he is copying anyones statement. Infact it appears he attacked the mighty messenger of Allah s.w.t. with such outrageous claims. Besides the book in which he wrote is called Roohany Khazaen. So you are saying to us is that this book is not divine but copies from x, y z,…….it does not make any sense any way you look at the argument:
“You may have tried to find a solution to my claims about the Messiah’s parental and maternal grandmothers. I am tired of thinking. Up to now, no nice solution has occurred to me. What a glorious god is he whose paternal and maternal grandmothers are of such repute?”
(Nur-ul-Quran, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 9, P. 394; Nur-ul-Quran, Vol. 2, P. 45)
“What was the character of Messiah, according to you? An alcoholic and gluttonous person, neither abstinent nor a pious worshipper, nor an adorer of truth. He was an arrogant and self-conceited claimant of divinity.”
(Noor-ul-Quran, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 9, P. 387; Anjam-e-Atham, P. 5, appendix)
“Jesus could not portray himself as a pious man because everyone knew that he was a gluttonous alcoholic… His claim to Godliness was a result of his bad habit of drinking Wine.”
(Satt Bachan, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 10, P. 296; Satt Bachan, P. 172, footnote)
“I do not think that Jesus observed any abstinence from wine.”
(Review of Religions, Vol. 1, P. 124, 1902)
“The root cause of all the damage that alcohol consumption has had on the Europeans was that Jesus used to drink alcohol, perhaps because of some disease or an old habit.”
(Kashti-i-Nuh, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 71; Kashti-i-Nuh, P. 65, footnote)
“Once a friend advised me that opium is good for diabetes and, with that excuse, there is no harm in taking it. I replied ‘thank you very much for your kind advice. However, if I get into the habit of using opium, I am afraid that people will mock that the first Messiah (Jesus) was an alcoholic and the second (Mirza himself) was a drug addict.”
(Nasim-i-Dawat, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 434; Nasim-i-Dawat, P. 66-67)
@NasrulMGA
We know you have no answer to defend MGA’s outrageous claims except saying he copied from someone else. So your prophet was a copy cat and did not care what he wrote in his books but he still titled them as Roohani Khazaen. Good luck to you keep him as your prophet and call your religion whatever you like but leave Islam and Muslims alone. I think this is a very fair settlement. But if you dare call your religion Islam and try to force us to accept Mirza as a prophet and messiah and mahdi then we have the right to ask you for proof and will challenge your statements.
@NasrulMGA
You appear to be very protective of MGA and his lies so how can we convince you to the truth.
You have given such a mixed bag of response which does not make any sense.
First you said Mirza copied from Chirstian bible then you said he copied from Jews.
You could not provide a single PROOF of that except denying the fact.
Mirza never said in his books titled ‘Roohani Khazaen’ that he copied from so and so.
The FACT is Mirza made very explicit and outrageous claims insulting Hazrat Isa a.s.
Christians like Muslims believe in His a.s. miraculous birth and never insult his mother Mary r.a. There may be some sects that came out of christianity and Islam and are no longer the mainstream like your cult, who deny these beliefs but you cannot say that they are part of Christianity or Islam.
Therefore, it is crystal clear your founder Mirza Ghulam is amongst those who made outrageous claims not just against Isa a.s but also against our noble prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. and Allah s.w.t. as well.
The following is what I found as one reference to prove my point with regards to your mixed bag of chips copied from GOD knows where:
__________________________________________________________________
Virgin birth
Annunciation by Fabrizio Boschi
Main article: Virgin birth of Jesus
These two Gospels declare that Jesus was begotten not by Joseph, but by the power of the Holy Spirit while Mary was still a virgin, in fulfillment of prophecy. Thus, in mainstream Christianity, Jesus is regarded as being literally the “only begotten son”[32] of God, while Joseph is regarded as his adoptive father.
Matthew immediately follows the genealogy of Jesus with:
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.[33]
Likewise, Luke tells of the Annunciation:
“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.”[34]
The question then arises, why do both gospels seem to trace the genealogy of Jesus through Joseph, when they deny that he is his biological father? Augustine considers it a sufficient answer that Joseph was the father of Jesus by adoption, his legal father, through whom he could rightfully claim descent from David.[35]
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@ Yousaf Ahmed
thanks for agreeing with me. but it appeared to me that you just wants argument for the sake of argument and not getting anything positive from that, as when i prove any of your point wrong you jumped to another one like jinns are bacteria. and now when i asked you people for the proof of your accusations you just provided the statements which you also agreed are not Hazrat Mirza Sahib’s own words. does any logical person consider this as proof? you in your heart knows the answer of my question which is a big NO. therefore you did not respond on that and changed your stance and started asking me for the references and when i provided some of them you need more.
if i proved all these allegations baseless then what will be your response?
will you accept that you were on the wrong side and ahmadiyyat is the true Islam? or like non believers kept on attacking the truth?
“will you accept that you were on the wrong side and ahmadiyyat is the true Islam? or like non believers kept on attacking the truth?”
WHAT!!! now thats too bold my friend. The problem is you cannot answer those questions no matter how hard you try, you only pick and chose what you can and sideline the rest. As I said you come as a defender and you will never accept any point raised by us. But did you see I accept 2 of your points. You have said something and now you cannot move away from it “that all above allegations are what Christians believe”.
2 more from me and my final challenge to you, take as much time as you want, months years as much as you like.
——————-
Anjam-e-atham. pg. 290
“christians have quoted lots of miracles of you but the truth is you never performed any miracle and for that you swore at them(jews), called them adulterers and bastards”
Now this is where Mirza Sahib is giving his own statement about what Christians believe. and he says they are wrong that Jesus did any miracles “you never performed any miracle rather you swore at them”.
Same page:
“this is very shameful that you stole, pahari taleem which is considered as brain of injeel, from Talmud a book of Jews and then presented as if it is my own teaching…”
you think christians believe this? Your Nabi is in direct contradiction of 6:108, he’s defaming the christian God.
——————
I’ll put my hands down on Ahmadiyyat if you prove me that “1. Christians believe that Isa A.S was an eunuch … 2. Christians believe He was proud, arrogant, unethical and immoral 3. Christians believe He never performed any miracle 4. Christians believe he stole from Talmud ”
take it or leave it. I am not here to convince you for anything neither turn you into “Islam”, hidayat comes from Allah not from us, we do this for people who are seekers of truth not for defenders. But because you come as a defender of Ahmadiyyat “impostor Islam” so we have to tackle you.
@Yousaf
The key point here is that this NasrulMGA came to defend MGA regardless of what the reality is and how big of a liar he was. So unless he changes his attitude he will never get hidayah. One has to have an open mind to accept truth. When so many people can see it why can’t he see it? There is abundance of evidence I mean it hardcore evidence that Mirza Ghulam was an imposter, it has been presented to Ahmadis time and again but still they deny it. So all we can say is let them be what they want to, we have done our job.
Another problem is that Ahmadis have not done an independant study of their religion, they are brainwashed by their murabbis so they remain ignorant of the false claims and deception of Mirza Ghulam.
If Ahmadis do some basic study they will know the facts. There are some very simple things that will instantly make it clear that Ahmadiyat is not Islam.
Example:
(1) Messiah is Isa Ibn e maryam a.s. and not mirza ghulam ibn e chirag bibi. Holy prophet prophecised coming of Isa ibn e maryam and not mirza ghulam.
(2) Messiah and Mahdi are two different persons according to authentic hadith of the holy prophet s.a.w.s. whereas mirza ghulam tried to claim both these positions.
(3) Mirza did not fulfill the signs of messiah or mahdi that were foretold in authentic hadith.
(4) Mirza used to drink alcohol and commit zina occasionally whereas Mirza Mahmud used to do more often………….what a disgrace to both father and son.
(5) Ahmadis have split into several factions and only a minority group is the hardcore one that believes mirza ghulam to be prophet/messiah/mahdi all in one depending on where they are located. Whereas the Lahori group atleast did not believe that he was any prophet or messiah or mahdi.
Everytime Mirza Masroor says that Prophet Muhammad SAW said Masih Moud will come which is a lie on Muhammad SAW. He said Isa ibne Maryam, no where in ahadith is the word Masih Moud. Masih Moud ibn-e-Chiragh Bibi would suite them I guess
Ahmadiyyat is a complete fraud. They are blackmailing Pakistan by making statements like ” See the condition of this Country is because they treated Ahamdis…….in such and such way by not allowing them to be declared as Muslims etc and the only hope of saving this Country is that they must give in to their demands”
This is a bunch of crap. They are actually blackmailing Pakistan and stirring up trouble by putting one against the other. For example, they tend to speak on behalf of other minorities such as Christians, Shias..etc. What love do they have for anyone?
This why some people say that this is a very dangerous fitna for all people as it leads to Kufr and distortion of faith especially to the Muslims.
How come this Mirza Magroor cannot realize some basic things about Islam? How can they reject clear proof in Hadith that Muhammad s.a.w.s foretold coming of Harzat Isa a.s and there is no mention of Maseeh Maud or Mirza Ghulam?
It is clear if we understand that this is a fitna created for division of Islam this can be the only logical conclusion. Also if you look at their Murabbis they are so arrogant and keep arguing about a few things only like ascension of Hazrat Isa a.s to heaven etc.
Also I have met several Ahamdis and they all appear to be severely brainwashed and have very deceptive personalities.
Here is an example of Mirza Tahir Ahmad’s knowledge:
In his book “Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truth” more than once
he calls Holy Prophet Muhammad SAW, “the Holy Founder of Islam”!!
Brother Yousaf,
As a moderator if you find that my comments on 4th September are
not within the rules please delete them.
Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: “What means Allah by this similitude?” By it He causes many to stray and many He leads into the right path but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path).2:26
Ahamdis are always finding the logic so God knew this and already explained in Quran.
They don’t believe in Jinns and finding their scientific logic.
It is enough for a book.
I will simply close this article after saying:
“For you, your religion and for me, My Religion”
Nothing can happen after arguing with Ahmadis, their ears, eyes are locked by God.
We are explaining for what?
We want to bring them a lighted path but they are finding the excape ways.
I know we are drawing their attention to the reality of MGA books but what they will do, they will change the books and innocent people will be decieved then. Think who will be the responsible for that, may be we. because we are highlighting and they are noting the weakneses in their books.
I read one line which I will show you.
There is one incident that MGA saw a naked woman in his dream and then he was discharged.
Now in current edition they removed the line describing he was discharged.
——————————-(MOD Note: took out abusive language, sorry, will not be tolerated)
Ahamdi brothers, please think. one generation can be wrong, second generation can be wrong, third generation can be wrong and now fifth generation is not willing to accept him. You know why?
Why?
Why?
Why?
Drink cold water, sit in an AC room, if u r sitting then lay down, if you are lay down, stand up.
Forget above discussion.
Just ask from your Heart. It will say^&%^&%^&@%@@ (MOD Note: no swearing bro)
I hope you will consider.
Thanks
You are absolutely right Basharat Ali. They are noting weaknesses in their books that is why they ask for references and then change the books. This is their game plan we know that. But what we should do is keep this books as records so when they change it they get caught again. Sound like a plan?
I cannot believe how much of this crazy guy’s (MTA) explanation is full of BS.
He tried to explain the questioner that it would take some billion years for Hazrat Isa (Alehe Salam) to come back. I feel so sorry for him.
Miracles are miracles because they cannot be explained by the laws of physics/ nature.
But let’s assume that laws cannot be broken. Then:
1 – What if the speed of Hazrat Isa is tens of millions times more than light? There are new theories emerging which say that breaking light speed barrier is possible.
2 – What if the all the heavens are near the earth but in another dimesion that can’t be seen?
3 – How many times Hazrat Jibrael (Alehe Salam) delivered Allah’s message to prophet Muhammad (SAW) in 23 years? Even if it happened only once (which is certainly a false statement), he would have started his journey tens of billions of years ago from 7th heaven and now still on his way back to tell Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala that he has delivered the message (Nauzubillah). It would take another tens of billions of years to reach there.
4 – All true Muslims would have to travel for tens of billions of years to enter Jannah (inshaAllah). On the other hand, all Qadiyanis (who are not reverted to Islam) would have to travel for the same number of years to reach Jahannum (inshaAllah).
What an amazing gadha (donkey) this khalifatul qadiyanis is….
I believe if Dr. AbdusSalam was present in this session, he would have cursed on all the Qadiyanis and their khalifas and entered the fold of Islam. But anyway, now he is on his way to Jahannum (if he hasn’t accepted the truth of Islam).